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Post by Cure Kiyoku on Aug 13, 2013 14:14:34 GMT -8
I feel a bit funny writing the starting thread to this Forum, because I am not a Lolita. Heee...someday, I might be, but I have a long, long way to go. I was reading this article by Cure Dolly: Japanese Training - Natto, Rice Grains, and Speech
As I was reading, I was thinking of the concept of katte ni suru, and how embedded the concept of doing your own thing is in Western culture. I think that I acquired some rather bad Western habits of dress and manners, but I think that this is because I have a bit of an inhibition in truly being different. Western dress and manners always felt rather awkward though, so I never did get it "right." I was thinking about what Cure Dolly wrote, and I started thinking about it. Now, if the Western way of doing things is rather katte ni suru anyways, then I am actually following the customs by doing my own thing. If doing my own thing is dressing and acting as is The Way for the Senshi, well then...heee....I am following BOTH sets of customs now, aren't I?
Heee...I know that is pretty convoluted logic, but there is a certain sense of it, isn't there? This logic has given me more courage to dress better. I think my style is tending towards otome, but maybe some day I will venture into Lolita. |
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Post by Cure Utsukushiku on Aug 13, 2013 14:58:57 GMT -8
I think that is really quite good logic, Kiyoku-chan!
And you have got me thinking about something...
Something I often see debated amongst Lolitas is the appropriateness of the fashion for everyday life; with some girls saying that they love to wear it to anime conventions and meetups, but feel that it is inappropriate for say, university. I have mixed feelings about this, because I think that caring about appropriateness and social norms is a good instinct (in a healthy society at least)...but at this point in history, the norms that still exist in terms of dress tend to be of such a low standard, that I feel that in this case it is perfectly fine to stand out.
Now, while Lolita really stands out, it is neat, elegant and feminine. And although it is not "historically accurate" it is a style that in the first half of the 20th century, would have been considered much more acceptable and appropriate for a young lady to wear than what is considered "normal" today. It is really nothing like other "alternative" fashions like punk where the point is to look shocking and strange.
Maybe I should write a full article about this? Although, I have such a long list of articles planned already - it is hard to decide which to focus on!
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Post by Cure Utsukushiku on Aug 13, 2013 15:02:50 GMT -8
Oh, and there is no need for you to feel shy about making the inaugural post here! I am very glad you started this conversation.
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Post by Cure Dolly on Aug 13, 2013 17:23:10 GMT -8
Yes yes! Article would be good.
The old double-bind of a perverse civilization has long been discussed among Daughters of Shining Harmony and their predecessors. The thing is that if the whole society is "rebellious" then to be good you have to rebel against the rebellion which makes you a rebel. Conversely since rebellion is actually the society's pseudo-norm (it can never be a true Norm) - it is not really rebellion but obedience.
It is enough to make your head spin.
Our answer has always been to form a society and conform to OUR standards, not to any outside standards which have become tainted by deformism.
Sorry to be brief - zooming!
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Post by Cure Ocha on Aug 13, 2013 17:39:23 GMT -8
And that is why it is important to be kind and give the benefit of the doubt to those who are poorly dressed. Poor darlings, trying their best to be good and so blind as to what true Goodness is!
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Post by Cure Yasashiku on Aug 13, 2013 18:38:00 GMT -8
I was rather proud of myself yesterday. I was wearing gloves on the train. I was reading my iPad, and a lady asked me if I was wearing gloves because I was using my iPad. I said, "No, I am wearing them because they look pretty!"
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Post by Cure Tadashiku on Aug 14, 2013 5:16:36 GMT -8
Of course there are some cases where the dress is just deliberately deformed, athamë, fuwa, or however one wants to express it. There seems to be culpability there but...
I am very sure there are cases where what is going on inside is along the lines of "These clothes are so gross and horrible, I really don't like wearing them, but just think how obedient I am being! I will have my reward in heaven". I truly think that in some cases this is only a small exaggeration if any. There are some people who really conform to horrible dress as a kind of perverted self-sacrifice.
Anyway, it is not our affair to psychoanalyze each case I imagine. West Tellurians seem to have forgotten about "hate sin and love the sinner" - because their individualism conflates the sinner with the sin and principles with personal likes and dislikes. One doesn't have to (and shouldn't) hate a person in order to know that what she is doing (whatever her motivation) is wrong.
My motto is "Hate sin and love the sinner - but not from close enough to catch what she's got."
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Post by Cure Dolly on Aug 15, 2013 15:54:38 GMT -8
I want to do an article on Japanese dress at some point. We have often mentioned that the least healthy aspect of the Precure series is the clothing choices depicted, and I would have to say that is true of Japan as a whole. I am surprised how even for serious festivals, very casual dress is considered acceptable.
On the other hand, I would have to say that there are far more exceptions to casualness and far more really nice dress, including:
• Lolitas - the smallest group mentioned here, but noticeable and splendid.
• Yukata - surprisingly often worn. A lot for festivals and at special places but you are usually likely to see one or two yukata at a crowded place.
•Really nice non-lolita dress. I see so many girls looking really pretty in cute clothes and make-up with no hint of the "irony" or "counterpoint" that would be considered necessary in West Telluria. That is why I was so flattered by being called "kirei" a lot of girls here really are kirei. This is a BIG group.
• Good yofuku - Western clothes of a good standard and properly worn. In Japan these are not merely a signal that you are going to work.
• Cute casual. You see a lot of this in Precure and while I am not recommending it, it is a lot nicer than most of what you see in West Telluria. Girls are creatively using Western casual clothes to express kawaii. English slogans on clothes are interesting. They usually express very sweet sentiments in a language that is hardly English - as if English were a sort of magical-incantation language.
Examples (out of the huge number one sees every day):
"I (heart) your smile and cute"
"Every day imagine do that you like the best. Something wonderful soon happen."
There are interesting thoughts here about clothes and communication (since clothes are a form of communication) - but I don't really have time to pursue them right now.
What I would like to say to honored Cure Kiyoku is that while Lolita is an important subject we never intended our fashion section to be restricted to Lolita fashion. Personally I try to embody a cute and neat style that borrows some Lolita ideas but is not really Lolita. Japanese girls are hugely creative with expressing the cute and feminine through clothes - and while the casual end of their scale is not really our area, I think we can learn a lot from them. I know I am.
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Post by Cure Kiyoku on Aug 16, 2013 6:20:13 GMT -8
Oh oh oh! I *have* noticed that in all of the Precure series I have seen, the girls *do* wear Yukata to the Summer Festival!
Tadashiku-san, what you are saying makes sense. When I was in school, I remember being teased for wearing pretty dresses, so I thought I was not supposed to wear them. I never could figure out or afford the *right* fashion...which I never really liked anyways, so I pretty much did not wear any fashion at all, and just dressed sloppy and casual.
Any time I *did* dress in ways that seemed proper and nice to me, I was told that I dressed like an old lady. It was all very confusing.
I am having a lot of fun now that I am wearing dresses all of the time!
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Post by Cure Murasaki on Aug 18, 2013 8:04:43 GMT -8
When I first started wearing dresses and skirts a lot, I had people constantly ask me "What are you dressing up for?" and "Are you in a play?" Now that I have been doing it for a while now, people I know have gotten used to it and don't expect my appearance to be for any special occasion but rather just comment that I look nice, though I still have strangers who do ask from time to time.
But I do think dressing nicely in this day and age takes a bit of a nonconformist spirit, if anything an unwillingness to conform to dominant societal standards of looking like a slop.
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Post by Cure Tadashiku on Aug 18, 2013 15:58:18 GMT -8
Miss Falconer, who always dresses immaculately used often to be asked things like "Are you going to a wedding?" She would reply "No. Are you going to the beach?"
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