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Post by Cure Dolly on Jul 11, 2013 21:58:39 GMT -8
 I am not sure if this is the right forum for this as it isn't exactly about Japanese language. But it is about something that intrigued this Dolly. It was an article about Japanese CMs and their "deeper meaning" - well I should have guessed that it would be anything but deep, but it was interesting. The writer said that while "celebrities" no longer appear in CMs on television in the West they still do in Japan. It wondered why that was and made some rather banal suggestions. However it also made one comment that then seemed to be forgotten and I think it is quite clearly the key to the whole question. It said that in the West, celebrities would now (unlike a few decades ago when celebrity advertising was common apparently) be seen as "selling out" if they advertised goods. That seemed to me like a very strange idea and I think it would seem to most Japanese people like a very strange idea too. But it is very typical of the increasing cynicism of the West and the way people think there. I have noticed it on Western game sites. There is a constant climate of complaint and anger that people are not getting exactly what they want when they want it. And an underlying assumption that the people who make them nice games are somehow in existence to do them down. I think the attitude is general. That the people who make all the wonderful things we see in the shops (I never fail to be filled with wonder when I see how many lovely things are in shops), who carry them often across the world so we can have them and make them easily available in shops very near where we live - that these people are somehow our enemies of whom we should be constantly suspicious. Now I am not here trying to defend "captialism". That isn't really the point. Neither am I wanting "celebrity CMs" in the West. I never watch Western television anyway and the only CMs I have seen in the wild are those that come in the interstices of Precure (they have little girls with Precure toys, not celebrities). In any case, I wouldn't know a Western celebrity from a hole in the ground (and I'd probably like the hole better). But the point is a great and growing cynicism and lack of gratitude in the West. In Japan I think people are still fundamentally grateful for food and the availability of good things. They don't see those who make them possible as their enemies. The entire concept of "selling out" comes from a very mean spirit. The answer to the question of why there are still celebrity CMs in Japan but not in the West boils down, I believe to one word: "cynicism and mean-spiritedness". Oh dear. That was four words wasn't it? |
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Post by Cure Ocha on Jul 12, 2013 10:39:12 GMT -8
Well, having seen more commercial advertising of the Western variety than would be good for a small doll, I can say that partially the things that are advertised most heavily are not the splendid things that immediately catch one's eye in the shops. To offer a testimonial on the most heavily advertised Western goods would be what I think they mean by selling out - an unacceptable compromise of important values.
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Post by Cure Yasashiku on Jul 12, 2013 10:42:01 GMT -8
That is a very interesting point you make, Dolly-chan. I have noticed that, particularly in the U.S., people complain a lot about all sorts of things. There is a strong sense of entitlement in Western thinking, it seems.
I noticed that when I returned to the United States after visiting Mexico. It really struck me how rude and entitled people were. I guess I had not noticed it so much before that. It is hard to explain. I have to think a bit more about what you are saying, but you may be very right in the point you are making.
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Post by Cure Tadashiku on Jul 12, 2013 15:38:15 GMT -8
I am probably naive, but I can't even think of an advertised product that would be bad. Well, apart from nasty movies and things like that.
Actually (and I may being unfair) I get the idea that many so-called "celebrities" are pretty unsavory - and I can't even name one as I don't consume modern Western media, so it may just be my prejudiced impression. But my feeling is that the worst "mass products" on the market are likely to be the "celebirties" themselves, and that if I were selling nice candy or yummy snacks or whizzy ordies or players for jolly music or fizzy drinks or - well anything really - I wouldn't want them associated with any dubiously-pure "celebrities".
However, I somehow doubt if that is actually the reason for the lack of Western celebrity CMs.
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Post by Clovender on Jul 15, 2013 13:38:11 GMT -8
I don't have anything to add, except perhaps Exhibit A: www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkSdmMQ8m0EDoesn't it make you feel warm and fuzzy about Visa? Yesterday I saw an ad for Coca-Cola that said something like, "Do you *really* know how good Coca-Cola is"? with a picture of a girl enjoying a bottle of Coca-Cola more than you probably ever have. Now that one felt more like it was intimidating people into buying the product! Perhaps what is being lost is the ability to innocently celebrate a product rather than coerce people into buying it by manipulating their emotions. |
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Post by Cure Dolly on Jul 15, 2013 19:31:58 GMT -8
Oh now if that is what is meant by celebrity CMs I am definitely in favor! I know what cards are of course, but Visa doesn't really feel enough of an understandable or feelable thing to me to feel warm and fuzzy thereabout. But the nobility and kakkoisa (can you say kakkoisa?) of the kinnie definitely makes me feel warm and fuzzy.
I should explain in case I wasn't clear that when I talk about gratitude, I am not really raising the issues of commercial companies and their goings-on for good bad or middliness. I was meaning just gratitude to life and nature and the Divine for all the lovely things that are so kindly put before us.
To take them all for granted and then moan because we don't like the particular human vehicles through which life pours its precious gifts on us seems really just - well bratty in a completely non-kawaii and unappealing sort of way. To a large extent there seems to be a brat-culture in the West, I think, even among people big enough to know better!
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Post by Cure Kiyoku on Jul 15, 2013 19:42:45 GMT -8
Oh dear. I guess I should not complain about the DQVC store being gone on DragonQuest IX then. I do hope it comes back, though. I have noticed people complaining a lot about it. It was nice of them to have it available for as long as it was.
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Post by Cure Ocha on Jul 15, 2013 19:42:50 GMT -8
Visa is a bit like a dashing heroine, at least here in the States, you know. It's an overwhelming responsibility to keep track of all one's wordly funds, and even a capable sort like myself has lost significant amounts of money when out and about. Visa gives me her calling card and says, "Use my name at any establishment, and you'll be taken care of! I am trusted by every bank!" And miracle of miracles, even if I lose that card, I can just call and say I lost it and get a new one, and nobody can use the old one!
Haruno Sumire is absolutely an excellent representative for such a service.
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Post by Clovender on Jul 16, 2013 1:35:58 GMT -8
Visa is a bit like a dashing heroine, at least here in the States, you know. It's an overwhelming responsibility to keep track of all one's wordly funds, and even a capable sort like myself has lost significant amounts of money when out and about. Visa gives me her calling card and says, "Use my name at any establishment, and you'll be taken care of! I am trusted by every bank!" And miracle of miracles, even if I lose that card, I can just call and say I lost it and get a new one, and nobody can use the old one! Haruno Sumire is absolutely an excellent representative for such a service. Hee, I never thought of it that way, but I love your explanation! Dolly-san, it becomes kakkoyosa, yoi being the old form of ii and what is still used in conjugations. I think the connection I was trying to make was that when advertising is basically innocent, it is mutually beneficial for celebrities to be involved in it. But when it becomes manipulative, it hurts the celebrity's image to be involved in it. Take the Coca-Cola ad, for example. I'm not aware whether the girl in it was a celebrity, but suppose she were. The ad subtly looks down on people who do not have a fervent love of Coca-Cola, and by extension, the celebrity posing for it would also be seen to be doing so. Any of her fans who did not enjoy Coca-Cola would feel insulted by her. In comparison, the Visa ad is completely positive and focused on the product. Fans of Osa-san, whether they carry Visas or anything else, are left thinking, "Isn't Visa wonderful!" and there are no hard feelings. |
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Post by Cure Tsukiakari on Jul 16, 2013 5:52:49 GMT -8
I have to admit that this is not a subject I have thought much about. I do not pay much attention to advertisements, and I pay even less attention to Western celebrities.
If I really thought about it, if there were any question of ethics or "selling out" involved, I guess the question for me would be whether the celebrity really uses or likes the product or service. I do not know that it is up to be to judge these things. Ultimately the question is whether *I* will like the product or service. I suppose that another question would be whether the advertisement were in good taste, but my sensibilities of good taste seem a bit different than Western conventional wisdom. Very little in the West seems to be in good taste to me, really, so I do not know that I am in a position to judge one way or another.
I do see what you are talking about regarding a brat-culture, Dolly-chan. People do seem to like to complain a lot, about a lot of different things. There seems to be a constant sort of grumpiness in the air.
Well, it is good that us Senshi are here: to fight evil and grumpiness!
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Post by Cure Ocha on Jul 18, 2013 8:44:42 GMT -8
After the theme song of an anime, they use what seems like very polite language to ask you to look at (try) their sponsors. I'm not having much luck translating what they're really saying there, though, at least not the nuances. Do our resident Japanese experts know?
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Post by Cure Dolly on Jul 18, 2013 9:47:58 GMT -8
Kakkoyosa - of course. Hee, I thought Kakkoisa didn't sound right, and of course the negative is kakkoyokunai, so I really should have thought of that. Silly me! I never really listen to the sponsor message - I must try next time. They do use the word " goran" which is very polite for "look", so yes, I assumed it was a polite request to look at the suponsaas. It didn't seem relevant since if I have a recording I can't and if I am watching live I do! Actually I adore the CMs for Precure toys and wouldn't de- goran them for the world!
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Post by Cure Ocha on Jul 18, 2013 21:49:09 GMT -8
Now *that* is a *toy*. I'm still sad it costs so much to get a real Smile! Precure makeup compact. Japanese companies seem to have *exactly* the right idea for merchandising.
You know, for the longest time I heard goran no suponsaa as gurando suponsaa, and I wondered and wondered what they were saying about their grand sponsors!
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Post by Clovender on Jul 19, 2013 2:12:53 GMT -8
After the theme song of an anime, they use what seems like very polite language to ask you to look at (try) their sponsors. I'm not having much luck translating what they're really saying there, though, at least not the nuances. Do our resident Japanese experts know? You don't mean "kono bangumi ha goran no suponsaa no teikyou de ookuri shimasu," do you? It's pretty much Japanese for, "This program is brought to you by the following sponsors." |
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Post by Cure Dolly on Jul 19, 2013 9:36:11 GMT -8
So literally is this "This program is, by the sponsoring of the sponsors you see (on the screen, I suppose)," well hee - I can't find either ookuri or kuri in the dictionary. Could it be something like "bigly come-made"?
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